The Good, the Meh, the Ugly.
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Posted by buffythecatslayer

People are asking for an explanation of the "5-hour gap" because it's one of the central points of his contention that Sunday is a rip-off.  They arrived at the vendor hall at 3, shocked, SHOCKED! that they only had an hour left, and that it's somehow Gen Con's fault.  Something that a quick check of the website would have told them.

It seems like they just showed up at 10 with no pre-planning, wondering "OK, what do we do now?"  Yeah, in that case, they're going to have a crappy experience, but that's no one's fault but their own.  If I'm dragging 4 kids to a crowded event, I'm definitely going to have a plan to keep them occupied & engaged, not just wandering around looking for things to do.

There were a number of free Demo events Sunday, but yes, other events add expense, something else that planning for the trip would have told them.

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Posted by lord thrifty the cromulent

Why does the convention end earlier on Sunday?  Does GenCon really need to pack up their stuff and clear out by Monday morning and staying open until 8:00 or 10:00 would make that impossible?  I am kicking myself for not taking the opportunity to visit the convention center on the morning of the 6th.

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Posted by k_dog64

I think part of that might have to do with giving the vendors/volunteers ample opportunity to get home Sunday so they can get back to their day jobs on Monday.  Not everyone that works a booth in the vendor hall is employed by that company.  I had a friend that volunteered to work the CoolStuffInc booth one Gen Con.  If they had to stay later on Sunday, that might make it so they would need to use more vacation time for their day job if it meant not being able to get home Sunday night. That can be a deal breaker for a lot of people.

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Posted by ryanjamison adcjones

adcjones wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:
adcjones wrote:Sunday.  The dealer hall closed at 400p.  What?!  I sure feel bad for those people who bought Sunday-only badges.  What a rip-off, especially when there weren’t hardly any events offered after 12:00p.  I talked up the Con for weeks with a coworker who wanted to take her young kids on Sunday.  They arrived around 10a only to realize there wasn’t a whole lot for them to do.  Once they finally got around to the dealer hall around 3:00p, they felt they got ripped off.  And they did.  I’m not sure why I even pay that much for a 4-day badge when Sunday has so little events and the dealer hall closes so early.

That's always been the Sunday closing time.
So what. 
The ugliest thing here is your attitude, which honestly makes me not feel sorry for you or them at all. You're not entitled to get everything for nothing. Just because you can think of a complaint doesn't mean it's a valid one. Tacking on a bunch of fill-in-the-blank insults when you get offended that people point this out isn't doing you any favors.

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Posted by roundtop lord thrifty the cromulent

mstabosz wrote:
Why does the convention end earlier on Sunday?  Does GenCon really need to pack up their stuff and clear out by Monday morning and staying open until 8:00 or 10:00 would make that impossible?  I am kicking myself for not taking the opportunity to visit the convention center on the morning of the 6th.

Yes it does.  I worked in the dealers hall this year.  I can tell you the following:

1) At 4pm we started tearing down, inventorying, etc.
2) As of 6:30pm we had broken down most of the booth (not yet inventoried product)
3) As of 8pm, product was inventoried and was being put on pallets.
4) We had a crew of about 15 people breaking it down and doing this. For 4 hours. Most vendors don't have that.
5) At past 10pm, vendors were still packing up.

Note: This didn't count loading pallets into trucks, which also had to happen (We just had a 3rd party doing that part, many vendors didn't).

So 4-6 hours of teardown, potentially more. So no, you can't keep the hall open later. As of the next morning, the cleaning crew was still working in the space and halls. (I walked through on Monday)

Also, gencon has to pay per day for the hall, so adding one more day could easily add $100,000 to the budget, even if there are no attendees.

So being open later hours on the Sunday means it would be well after midnight that most vendors could be done, which is unreasonable.

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Posted by braewe

Sorry for assuming they didn't need badges--you had said she would be bringing 'young children' so I assumed that meant, well, young children. 11+ are generally decently manageable, they tend to already have activities they enjoy( boardgames they like, don't like) and at that age there were probably quite a few boardgames TO play. Unless they were quadruplets, then the ages were perhaps 11, 12, 14, 15? You could actually probably give the 14 and 15 year olds a phone and say meet back here, or escort them to an event and pick them up after.

Either way, with kids that old, to get use out of the expense(which then is $75) there /definitely/ should have been planning. Backpacks with snacks for each child, plotted games or demos. I guess what I'm trying to say is that gen con is not typically an event you'd go to without at least /some/ planning unless the kids were young, and in that case, herd them to the kid's areas and let them have fun while overseeing. And the reason we keep asking what was done from 10-3 is that, well, it's most of the day. Saying an hour is a rip off is one thing. Saying 6 hours is another thing entirely. I myself gm'd from 10-2 then dealer halled it 2-330 and called it good. Totally worth.

Come to think of it, attending on your own with four kids would be an adventure in and of itself. Not one I would do. So maybe her wish not to return has more to do with that, than gen con being a ripoff.

As for us not being capable of hearing complaints, clearly you haven't been on just after hotel registration or event registration. We complain (and listen to complaints) just fine. ;)

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Posted by grtbrt

in addition to the above reasons - There are times when the convention center (or parts of it ) are booked for Tuesday setup for a new convention . It takes a good deal of time to set up for a convention . Usually the ICC is finishing its setup for gencon on the Wednesday as vendors arrive .

Dkrantz- There is asking and there is demanding . Why should they need to pre-plan ? Gencon has advertised just come on down and see the convention - without mentioning "make sure you pre-plan "!
If your convention  needs casual attendees  to pre-plan for them to enjoy it perhaps you are doing something wrong or attempting to appeal to the wrong groups .
A convention / group that is interested in growing new members  needs to make it easy for a casual attendee to enjoy themselves . An online and printed 1 page guide to suggested activities and sites would go a long way to make the casual attendees feel welcome and more likely to enjoy it.  

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Posted by garhkal adcjones

adcjones wrote:No shows always ruin games.  It's unfortunate something can't be done against those people who no show.  In my experience if I don't end up with a ticket I always go anyway knowing there's a high probability of a chance to get in anyway.

There's been some threads in prior years, discussing whether something should be done, and if so, what, to no shows..  Especially if they are repeat no-shows..  Most of us can't seem to agree on what.. 

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Posted by lord thrifty the cromulent

I really should have tried my luck at one of those Fireball Island games that seemed to sell out immediately.  Maybe I could have made it in spite of no-shows.

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Posted by buffythecatslayer

Wow, roundtop & kdog, way to miss sarcasm.

And grtbrt, as far as not planning anything, WTF?  Casual or not, this is a Con with thousands of events of different game types, and hundreds of vendors, spanning multiple locations.  Suggesting that someone just show up with no idea of where to go, especially with 4 kids in tow is foolish; trying to suggest that it's some fault of Gen Con's that someone should spend some planning time is frankly idiotic.   And actually, they do have about 3-4 pages in the Con guide suggesting events for different types of Con-goers.

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Posted by k_dog64 buffythecatslayer

dkrantz152 wrote:
Wow, roundtop & kdog, way to miss sarcasm.
And grtbrt, as far as not planning anything, WTF?  Casual or not, this is a Con with thousands of events of different game types, and hundreds of vendors, spanning multiple locations.  Suggesting that someone just show up with no idea of where to go, especially with 4 kids in tow is foolish; trying to suggest that it's some fault of Gen Con's that someone should spend some planning time is frankly idiotic.   And actually, they do have about 3-4 pages in the Con guide suggesting events for different types of Con-goers.
My response was more targeted at mstabosz question he posted just prior to my post.  Perhaps I should have made sure I quoted that post.

Sorry to have apparently upset you with my post.

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Posted by buffythecatslayer

My response was more targeted at mstabosz question he posted just prior to my post.  Perhaps I should have made sure I quoted that post.Sorry to have apparently upset you with my post.

You didn't upset me, and I was referring to mstabosz's post, which was obviously a joke if you took 30 seconds to think about it.

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Posted by k_dog64 buffythecatslayer

dkrantz152 wrote:
My response was more targeted at mstabosz question he posted just prior to my post.  Perhaps I should have made sure I quoted that post.Sorry to have apparently upset you with my post.

You didn't upset me, and I was referring to mstabosz's post, which was obviously a joke if you took 30 seconds to think about it.
A joke that was veiled with a legitimate question.  There are a lot of people that don't know what is involved in setup/tear down and stuff like that.

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Posted by buffythecatslayer

I agree that some people think the hall should be open 24/7, ignoring any logistical issues with that.  But the part about going on Monday should have been the tipoff :-)

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Posted by k_dog64

I will admit I didn't take the time to open a calendar to check which day of the week the 6th was.  I've been busy enough at work to lose track which day of the week it actually is.

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Posted by jamster2022 k_dog64

k_dog64 wrote:
I will admit I didn't take the time to open a calendar to check which day of the week the 6th was.  I've been busy enough at work to lose track which day of the week it actually is.
For what it's worth, mstabosz lives locally, and I thought he literally meant he was going to swing by the convention center on Monday morning to see whether it was packed up. If there was sarcasm in that post, I didn't pick up on it either.

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Posted by braewe

The zoo I mentioned a few posts ago also encourages people to 'drop on in' but that doesn't mean if I'm packing up 4 kids and spending money on attending, parking, gas and food that I shouldn't plan a bit. 

I also did not pick up on the sarcasm. Doh! I wonder how sad and forlorn it looks after the con though.

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Posted by cman811 garhkal

garhkal wrote:
adcjones wrote:No shows always ruin games.  It's unfortunate something can't be done against those people who no show.  In my experience if I don't end up with a ticket I always go anyway knowing there's a high probability of a chance to get in anyway.

There's been some threads in prior years, discussing whether something should be done, and if so, what, to no shows..  Especially if they are repeat no-shows..  Most of us can't seem to agree on what.. 
That's because literally nothing should be done.  It's my time and my money, I can spend it and not show to an event how I like.  

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Posted by grtbrt

I am assuming that you are also using sarcasm or perhaps just  being deliberately obtuse . Either way, indeed it is your time and money - Just as it the time and money that your GM spent to put on that game/event . However, unlike you, that GM is being judged on the total number of actual players. It doesn't matter if you return the ticket or not ,if it is not handed to the GM it doesn't exist (in the eyes of Gen Con anyway ). Those no-shows have a direct effect of the GM's ability to put on games/events the following year(s).

Just as a theoretical exercise : What would your reaction be if you got a ticket to an event and when/if you showed up the GM/EO said "sorry ,I gave your seat to a walk-up player I knew would be here "  ?

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Posted by roundtop buffythecatslayer

dkrantz152 wrote:
Wow, roundtop & kdog, way to miss sarcasm.
And grtbrt, as far as not planning anything, WTF?  Casual or not, this is a Con with thousands of events of different game types, and hundreds of vendors, spanning multiple locations.  Suggesting that someone just show up with no idea of where to go, especially with 4 kids in tow is foolish; trying to suggest that it's some fault of Gen Con's that someone should spend some planning time is frankly idiotic.   And actually, they do have about 3-4 pages in the Con guide suggesting events for different types of Con-goers.

I was responding to mstabozs' post. But honestly I have seen too many people with that opinion, and I read the Monday comment is trying to see what was left, not for sale stuff.

as the expression goes: "common sense is not so common"

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