Any official stance on so-called "hoverboards"? ( Locked)
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Posted by steven_hunter
#1

Wondering if GenCon has any official stance on using "hoverboards" at the con?

While I don't particularly care about people using them elsewhere in the ICC, I'd like to seem them barred from the Exhibit Hall. That place is crowded enough with just foot traffic and (IMHO) adding "hoverboards" would only make things worse.

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Posted by hope pennington
#2

Hopefully natural selection will take care of that.

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Posted by dballing steven_hunter
#3

steven_hunter wrote:
Wondering if GenCon has any official stance on using "hoverboards" at the con?
While I don't particularly care about people using them elsewhere in the ICC, I'd like to seem them barred from the Exhibit Hall. That place is crowded enough with just foot traffic and (IMHO) adding "hoverboards" would only make things worse.

Doesn't the ICC ban on "explosives" cover that? :-D

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Posted by parody
#4

The ICCLOS Facility Guide has this in section 2.4.2 (p. 7): "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility unless prior written approval has been given by Facility Management."

Barring changes in Indiana/Indianapolis law, ADA exceptions, and/or a worked-out deal, the default appears to be that they're not allowed inside the ICC.  Not that that's likely to stop anyone.

I'm not a lawyer, your mileage may vary, etc.

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Posted by tdb
#5

Finally! A practical use for a foam greataxe!  :-)

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Posted by marimaccadmin
#6

Yeah, no hoverboards.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

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Posted by tdb
#7

Hmmm, how about a hoverboard jousting event?  Use pool noodles for lances. That could be fun.

Fun to watch, at least.  
 

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Posted by nialith
#8

Can't remember if it was at GenCon or one of the other Indy cons but there was a guy dressed up as Emporer Palpatine in the dark robes riding around on a hoverboard. Looked like he was floating around the convention. That was pretty awesome. 

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Posted by brotherbock nialith
#9

nialith wrote:
Can't remember if it was at GenCon or one of the other Indy cons but there was a guy dressed up as Emporer Palpatine in the dark robes riding around on a hoverboard. Looked like he was floating around the convention. That was pretty awesome. 

He was at Gen Con last year. Can confirm, was cool. But to his credit, I only ever saw him in the big wide open hallways in the con center. Never in the exhibit or gaming halls.

So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible.

What if you came dressed in your best second film Marty McFly costume, for example :)

EDIT FOR CLARITY: Marimacc has indicated below that hoverboards are not being allowed by Gen Con, so the ICC's rule doesn't even apply. In case anyone comes to this party late. :)

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Posted by steven_hunter brotherbock
#10

brotherbock wrote:
What if you came dressed in your best second film Marty McFly costume, for example :)
 
If you have a real BTTF hoverboard then you are welcome to bring it IMHO. :D

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Posted by genconkeeper
#11

Frankly the hallways are just too conjested for someone on a hoverboard to get around. I remember seeing one last year outside the Dealer's Room for the 1st time and thought how could one get around and 'Not' get knocked down. Even if there was not a rule against them they still be a bad idea.
Randu

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Posted by grtbrt
#12

"So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible."

Actually the rule says exactly that . "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility" pretty definitive ,especially since the facility is the whole convention center.
You can ask (written ) but I can guarantee they will default to what their lawyers suggest  and that is no hoverboards
 

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Posted by brotherbock grtbrt
#13

grtbrt wrote:
"So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible."
Actually the rule says exactly that . "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility" pretty definitive ,especially since the facility is the whole convention center.
You can ask (written ) but I can guarantee they will default to what their lawyers suggest  and that is no hoverboards
 

You have misquoted. The rule says "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility unless..."

That last word is really, really important in interpretation of the rule.

You can guarantee all you want, but unless you work for them and know otherwise, the rule indicates that motorized vehicles are not absolutely banned from the building. They are not allowed without express permission.

That was the point of my post above, which is still correct. I didn't indicate at all what the odds would be of them allowing a vehicle. But I will tell you that Gen Con employees used to zip around on Segways all the time not too long ago. So the facility staff does not, in every single case, just default to 'not allowed'. Again, I have no idea and said nothing about what the odds are of a regular attendee being allowed. My point was only that the interpretation of 'no way no how' is incorrect.

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Posted by grtbrt
#14

First I did not misquote at all -  It is banned  unless you have permission . . Permissison being granted does not change the fact it is  , it merely gives 1 (or more )person/people  an exemption . Very different . If you choose to mis-interpret a rule /law , it does not make it a fact .
Actually the important word is PERMISSION.
Just the same way that it is against the law to drive without a valid license ,but there are exemptions . This does not change  the fact it is against the law .
I actually do know otherwise - I am on very good terms with a number of their corporate lawyers and do know the answer. 

 

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Posted by brotherbock
#15

This is what you wrote above:

"Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility" pretty definitive, especially since the facility is the whole convention center. 

Definitive meaning 'done, conclusion reached' (which is the definition of the word), the partial quote you gave is, in fact, not definitive, any more so than saying "It's illegal to drive in the USA" is a definitive statement of the law that requires government permission to drive. That statement is an incomplete and potentially misleading interpretation of the law. That's what I meant by saying you misquoted. If I say "Donald Trump is not evil" and you quote me and leave out the 'not', you have misquoted me. Leaving out an important part of someone's statement is a misquote.

In contrast, here's what I wrote:

So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible.

First sentence: true. Third sentence: true. Fourth sentence: true.

The only thing I wrote there that is not blatantly true is the second sentence, my opinion that this interpretation: "Yeah, no hoverboards." is overly conservative.

And I stand by the opinion. Saying essentially "hoverboards are not allowed" and implying "at all" is overly conservative, as hoverboards may in fact be allowed on individual merit. And indeed, I stand by that opinion that it is not a definitive interpretation of the rule, even if you do happen to know some of their lawyers. Their own rule leaves open the possibility of allowed hoverboards. So to say "hoverboards are not allowed" is the definitive interpretation of the rule is as incorrect as saying "you can smoke anywhere you want in the United States" and leaving out "where it is permitted".

I guess you could try to argue about the definition of 'definitive'. I'm just going by a combo of the dictionary and common usage. And I'm not interested in debating that definition. I think what I've said here is both all I want to say and all I need to say to defend my position. Not trying to be a jerk, sorry if I came across that way. My initial point in all of this was that I didn't want people to neglect the very real fact that they can ask the convention center staff for permission to bring a hoverboard if they choose to. Someone reading "no hoverboards" might not have realized that.

Peace.

(I'll add that I'm not saying Marimacc was out of line in any way. Her being a rep of Gen Con, I think it's pretty reasonable of her to take the conservative position when she gives what will be taken as an 'official Gen Con position'. Better for her employer to be seen as saying "no" than to be seen as giving permission.)

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Posted by marimaccadmin
#16

Seriously, there is no argument here.  

We do not allow hoverboards at Gen Con, you will not be able to secure permission from the facility to bring one in, and that's that.  End of story.  We rent the whole convention center, and you cannot secure permission from the convention center to have something at an event that the event does not allow.  You cannot ask the convention center to allow it, when Gen Con does not.  Gen Con does not allow hoverboards, and therefore, there will not be hoverboards at Gen Con, and you cannot obtain permission to have one.  If you're seen using one, you'll be asked to get off it and take it outside the facilities.

That's it, there's no way around it, sorry.  They aren't safe, and we aren't allowing them.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

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Posted by brotherbock marimaccadmin
#17

marimaccadmin wrote:
Seriously, there is no argument here.  
We do not allow hoverboards at Gen Con, you will not be able to secure permission from the facility to bring one in, and that's that.  End of story.  We rent the whole convention center, and you cannot secure permission from the convention center to have something at an event that the event does not allow.  You cannot ask the convention center to allow it, when Gen Con does not.  Gen Con does not allow hoverboards, and therefore, there will not be hoverboards at Gen Con, and you cannot obtain permission to have one.  If you're seen using one, you'll be asked to get off it and take it outside the facilities.
That's it, there's no way around it, sorry.  They aren't safe, and we aren't allowing them.
Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

Ah, gotcha. Yup, Gen Con as the renting company not allowing makes the facility rules moot. Sorry, I didn't realize that's what you were saying above. Apologies.

(And I'm on board with not allowing them, to be clear. That's a good call.)

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Posted by garhkal grtbrt
#18

grtbrt wrote:
"So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible."
Actually the rule says exactly that . "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility" pretty definitive ,especially since the facility is the whole convention center.
You can ask (written ) but I can guarantee they will default to what their lawyers suggest  and that is no hoverboards
 

So if the rules say no moterised vehicles, then why do i see lots of motorized scooters/wheel chairs?  Or are those not considered motorized vehicles?

 

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Posted by brotherbock garhkal
#19

garhkal wrote:
grtbrt wrote:
"So the rule above doesn't say you can't bring a hoverboard. The interp of the rule above seems overly conservative. Someone could easily ask the Con center management for permission. I don't know what their standards are, but it does talk about facility management approval being theoretically possible."
Actually the rule says exactly that . "Motorized vehicles cannot be brought into the facility" pretty definitive ,especially since the facility is the whole convention center.
You can ask (written ) but I can guarantee they will default to what their lawyers suggest  and that is no hoverboards

So if the rules say no moterised vehicles, then why do i see lots of motorized scooters/wheel chairs?  Or are those not considered motorized vehicles? 

I think that's jurisdictionally dependent. Some are 'mechanically propelled' or 'motor assisted', legal definitions given to separate them from things not allowed :) Other places, iirc from years ago working with the ADA audit, they are motorized vehicles with specific exemptions written into the law.

Edit: just poked around a brief bit on the Google--seems some jurisdictions haven't even made distinctions, and have been allowing 'common sense' to dictate until forced into a decision. There's one case in Florida where a guy in a motorized wheelchair crashed into and killed a guy in a scooter, and the issue in court was to determine whether or not the chair was a vehicle. Things like horesepower, wattage, and speed were being considered. (Can't find the resolution yet...grrrr. Here's that article.)

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Posted by parody garhkal
#20

garhkal wrote:
So if the rules say no moterised vehicles, then why do i see lots of motorized scooters/wheel chairs?  Or are those not considered motorized vehicles? 

They are ADA exceptions.  (Section 7.1 of the Facilities Guide mentions that the facility is ADA compliant and those running events at the facility must ensure their booths and whatnot are compliant if applicable.)  Presumably it's easier to let the government(s) worry about exactly what needs to be allowed (with some discretion given to facility operators) and not scatter "...and things allowed under the ADA" everywhere in your guide.  However, paragraph 6.4.6 mentions ADA Service Animals specifically, so who knows?  I'm not writing the guide. :)

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